Karen’s personal therapist, PhD supervisor and guide-mother, Pescel Mirvington PhD, pops by to shed some light on Karen’s unorthodox counselling methods. Pescel and Karen discuss Freudian developmental stages, sandplay, pogo therapy, sports therapy and their unique relationship. Pescel calls out Karen’s famous sense of humour as a defence mechanism, but don’t worry – they’re working on it. With the help of a tin of Heinz Baby Custard. On today's episode, Pescel was played by Jacob Sacher (@JacobSacher on Twitter).